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SKATEBOARDING => DIY => Topic started by: caffeine man on March 05, 2012, 12:37:24 PM



Title: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 05, 2012, 12:37:24 PM
Me and some friends are going to build a concrete quarter. We don't have much experience but we have used concrete before. Its going to about 1' 6" high. It going to be built against the blocks in the photo (3 across 2 up). I know we need to build wooden sides for it but i'm not sure how to draw a nice transition, any ideas? Also when we last built something the concrete had big stones in it so any tips on a good mix (We used Mastercrete all purpose ready mixed). Finally do we need to cement between the blocks?
Cheers for any help


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: Frank on March 06, 2012, 06:30:55 AM
There's info all over the internets on tanny drawings.
http://rampplans.org/faqs/ (http://rampplans.org/faqs/)

Those chunks are aggregate. You need to push all that to your metal and bring out the cream by troweling. The more you trowel the smoother and less chunks. Best thing to do is just pour it and make it happen. You can't mess up concrete just as long as its skateable.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 06, 2012, 09:17:07 AM
Cheers that sites pretty sick. Do you know anyway of fixing the rebar to the coping without welding? (we are 14-15)


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: Frank on March 06, 2012, 11:18:33 AM
You can thread some holes and use all-thread to hold it in. Which is probably harder than welding. Just form you lip out of concrete. Metal is for inside concrete, not outside.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: krusher on March 06, 2012, 11:46:47 PM
An 18" quarter sounds better if it was just a bank that could also be used as a ledge.

There is a shit ton of stuff in this place that will steer you in the right direction, just go through some of the popular threads. I mean there are a couple of post on making your own concrete coping. If you still want steal coping with rebar get your parents or friends to buy a $10 12pack of beer and take that beer to just about any mechanic shop in your area and they will probably tack the rebar on for you. At 18 inches I really don't think you need to worry about copping.

here are two great videos (http://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/skatepark-geometry/id455690196) to start with, if you can't stand the math talk that doesn't matter just watch what he does.

Add a heaping scoop of Portland cement to help make your concrete smother. Use wood, magnesium, then steel trowels to help bring up the cream. For your small quarter it's not that big of a deal if you don't


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: krusher on March 07, 2012, 12:23:54 AM
Here is a picture of me putting all thread in some coping back when I didn't know any better. It is actully very easy if you have the know how and own all of the expensive tools.

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t238/joedalton/skate%20builds/Picture2341.jpg)

This is a wood version of your 18" bank, I would make it just a little mellower for you so your friends could skate it.

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t238/joedalton/skate%20builds/Picture2428.jpg)

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t238/joedalton/skate%20builds/Picture2445.jpg)

Coping on wood is different then no copping on concrete


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 07, 2012, 01:57:54 AM
Yeah can see what you mean krusher but we would rather try to build a qp. Does 2' tranny sound about right? Will ask the others what they think about the coping options.

We built this last Friday, haven't been able to skate it properly yet because it was not set and cracked when we tried to (you can see where we touched it up). It was meant to be a quarter but then we forgot to give it transition so its a bank. From how it looks it should be skate able but pretty rough.

Hoping to pour the qp in this coming week.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 07, 2012, 02:00:55 AM
Forgot to attach this.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: susej on March 07, 2012, 05:34:17 AM
qp? bank? what you've got is a pile of dirt and some bricks. Rad!


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: susej on March 07, 2012, 05:40:25 AM
But if that's the kind of thing you're after, put two chunks of plywood in the corner formed by the ground and the curb. If your quarter will be higher than the curb, put some heavy shit on the curb to form a back wall. Throw in a bunch of rubble. Put in some wire mesh roughly in the shape of the quarter you wanna make. Mix 1/2 sand with 1/2 portland (or anywhere even remotely close to that). Mix it some more. Throw it on your rubble. Slap the shit out of it with a metal trowel until you get it smooth in roughly the shape you want. Fuck coping. Trowel yourself up a nice edge. Leave it for an hour. Trowel it again. Leave it for 2 days. Remove wood. Skate.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: John Davis on March 07, 2012, 06:47:36 AM
But if that's the kind of thing you're after, put two chunks of plywood in the corner formed by the ground and the curb. If your quarter will be higher than the curb, put some heavy shit on the curb to form a back wall. Throw in a bunch of rubble. Put in some wire mesh roughly in the shape of the quarter you wanna make. Mix 1/2 sand with 1/2 portland (or anywhere even remotely close to that). Mix it some more. Throw it on your rubble. Slap the shit out of it with a metal trowel until you get it smooth in roughly the shape you want. Fuck coping. Trowel yourself up a nice edge. Leave it for an hour. Trowel it again. Leave it for 2 days. Remove wood. Skate.



^^^THIS^^^

Or you could try parking blocks.  I made this spot using basically the same formula Susej recommends (for next to nothing) and it's been super-fun to skate.

(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac240/thejohndavisexp/Driveway.jpg)


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: krusher on March 07, 2012, 03:57:08 PM
^ That's rad John

There is something going very wrong if this is your finished product.

(http://www.thrashermagazine.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12052.0;attach=3301;image)

How much concrete did you use? Looks like you mixed the concrete and dirt fill together.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: susej on March 08, 2012, 02:22:33 AM
Oh, I forgot to say:

Add water to your sand/portland until you have a consistency that is between porridge and mashed potatoes.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: Salamander on March 08, 2012, 10:17:01 AM
But if that's the kind of thing you're after, put two chunks of plywood in the corner formed by the ground and the curb. If your quarter will be higher than the curb, put some heavy shit on the curb to form a back wall. Throw in a bunch of rubble. Put in some wire mesh roughly in the shape of the quarter you wanna make. Mix 1/2 sand with 1/2 portland (or anywhere even remotely close to that). Mix it some more. Throw it on your rubble. Slap the shit out of it with a metal trowel until you get it smooth in roughly the shape you want. Fuck coping. Trowel yourself up a nice edge. Leave it for an hour. Trowel it again. Leave it for 2 days. Remove wood. Skate.



^^^THIS^^^

Or you could try parking blocks.  I made this spot using basically the same formula Susej recommends (for next to nothing) and it's been super-fun to skate.

([url]http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac240/thejohndavisexp/Driveway.jpg[/url])


That looks fun, is that in your driveway?

^ That's rad John

There is something going very wrong if this is your finished product.

([url]http://www.thrashermagazine.com/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12052.0;attach=3301;image[/url])

How much concrete did you use? Looks like you mixed the concrete and dirt fill together.


Maybe not enough crete? Looks like you guys didn't have enough to cover the dirt with or have a trowel to smooth it out. Gotta work that with a trowell if you don't want it to be rough as hell.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 08, 2012, 11:51:07 AM
The pile of dirt and bricks is no longer with us. It was completely dry when we tried to skate. We definatly covered it enough (inch all over). Not too sure what went wrong but some the gravel in the mix was quite big and might of messed things up.

Convinced the others to not use coping and drew out transitions today. Got most of the filler next to the build so it's pretty much just the pour left. Is Portland a brand of cement? Will any cement do or is Portland special? And what's a trowel? Made the last one with a garden spade  :-\



Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 08, 2012, 11:52:32 AM
Im really bad at this


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: pat on March 08, 2012, 01:27:50 PM
keep trying you'll figure it out.
portland is the grey stuff (the actual concrete), sand is the tan, and agregate is the rock. the three together equal concret mix.
you can use ready mix quikrete bags, but buy and extra bag of portland to mix in, usually an extra shovel of portland for wvery bag of ready mix.
you def nee to ge a real trowel. and a float.
google concret trowel and concrete float and read about the two. keep at it, you'll get better every time.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: Salamander on March 08, 2012, 03:12:19 PM
The pile of dirt and bricks is no longer with us. It was completely dry when we tried to skate. We definatly covered it enough (inch all over). Not too sure what went wrong but some the gravel in the mix was quite big and might of messed things up.

Convinced the others to not use coping and drew out transitions today. Got most of the filler next to the build so it's pretty much just the pour left. Is Portland a brand of cement? Will any cement do or is Portland special? And what's a trowel? Made the last one with a garden spade  :-\




Ok, a garden spade will probably not be the right tool for this. Also, you will probably need 2-3 bags of ready mix and 1 bag of Portland to get this at least 3-4" thick, 1" will not do the trick. That's why it broke apart so easy. Remember Google is your best friend when researching, I found these images that way.

Quikrete works good.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/ericmpeters/unnamedCAB0JV8M.jpg)

Any bag that says Portland cement. (smallest or cheapest since you will only need about 2-3 shovels) make sure you mix the portland into each mix if mixing 1 bag at a time. Or if you are going to mix 3 bags of ready mix at once just throw 3 shovels of portland in.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/ericmpeters/unnamedCAZLEE20.jpg)

Depending on how wet the concrete is you will need to let it sit and dry up a bit before using a pool trowel. But you can hit it a few times with a wood float or magnesium float. Either tool will help push those big peices of gravel (agregate) down and help make a smoother suface. If you cannot afford one of these tools you can just use a 2x4.
Wood float
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/ericmpeters/unnamedCAQ2THSQ.jpg)
Magnesium Float
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/ericmpeters/unnamed3.jpg)

After you have smoothed it out a bit with a float or 2x4 let it sit for a while longer but don't wait for it to completely dry and then hit it back and forth with a pool trowel. At this point you should see it start to take shape. and some cream to work with on the surface.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/ericmpeters/unnamed9.jpg)

Make sure when you mix the water it is not too watery of a mix and that it is wet and mixed all the way through, kinda sticky, this will help you be able to work with it better. You can probably find little helpful video's on this through you tube as well.




Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: krusher on March 08, 2012, 04:03:54 PM
1 inch of concrete is not thick enough, just like everyone else is saying you need at least 3 inches but 4 is better. This way all of the rocks in the mix will go to the bottom. You need to do more reading on concrete work before you do your next pour

If you are not going to use steel to reenforce the concrete then you can't use any dirt filler.

Look at this quarter it is the same size as yours and it is holding up because they used only concrete

(http://distilleryimage5.s3.amazonaws.com/628fa87a67d211e1a87612313804ec91_6.jpg)

It will hold up better if they put some wire fence or mesh in there


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 09, 2012, 08:04:59 AM
Filler is going to be rocks and smaller stones so will it need metal through the concrete?


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: Frank on March 09, 2012, 10:52:38 AM
Filler is going to be rocks and smaller stones so will it need metal through the concrete?

Yes. Find old chainlink fence or chicken wire. Make sure it sets an inch to 2 inches from the bottom of your crete.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: bailgun on March 09, 2012, 12:56:40 PM
really good info here..... the only thing id add is USE REBAR. OR AT LEAST SOMETHING TO HELP STIFFEN IT UP SO IT WILL LAST A WHILE.

but other than that, this thread is killing it.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 10, 2012, 05:18:26 AM
Ok we are all on the lookout for some wire mesh/fence and will buy some if we cannot find anything suitable. The garden spade is actually a masonry trowel but we will buy pool trowel as well. What do you mean by rebar bailgun? Like in the ramp?


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: dtotherob on March 10, 2012, 10:34:50 AM
i poured this last month.  i had never poured before.  i know it's not a QP, but you can get the idea.  the rebar is near the front of the form.  it's basically .5 inch thick steel rod.  you see it laying around construction sites all the time.

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/dtotherob/351fd328.jpg)

if you check the salamander ranch thread, you can see lots of rebar too.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: pat on March 10, 2012, 10:36:48 AM
here is a pic of a quarter i am pouring soon, completly ready with rebar.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: pat on March 10, 2012, 10:37:14 AM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/kingpat/gp001.jpg)


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 11, 2012, 03:32:43 AM
Could we just use rebar instead of chicken wire? And also are they hard to bend for the vertical ones?
Cheers


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: pat on March 11, 2012, 09:34:30 AM
yes, you can use rebar inrtead of chicken wire. depends what size rebar, you want #3 rebar, it bends pretty easy.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: C H U C K on March 11, 2012, 01:36:53 PM
really good info here..... the only thing id add is USE REBAR. OR AT LEAST SOMETHING TO HELP STIFFEN IT UP SO IT WILL LAST A WHILE.

but other than that, this thread is killing it.


Seconded. Great job guys on helping the lil groms get going on some DIY. Best of luck to the kids... stick with it and pay attention to the advice on here.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 12, 2012, 08:58:15 AM
Yeah thanks for all the advice everyone, we'll pinch some rebar when we find some but until then the pour is on hold. We might cement the blocks together this week but not expecting to pour too soon. Friends have decided to go with coping again but I'm not too fussed about that although I agree a concrete lip would be quicker and more interesting to skate  :-\


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: krusher on March 12, 2012, 06:01:27 PM
I have learned the hard way, that if you are going to build a spot to skate build what you want. Your friends are going to give you so much advice and opinions about what to build but at the end of the day you are the one that is going to be skating it all the time not your friends. So if you are the foreman on the job make the decision you want, make some coping out of bottle caps and soda cans, they grind too, WHO GIVES A FELCH! JUST SKATE>.. haha

Back to diy advice: People use to much water

Whenever I'm in charge of a concrete job at work people bitch and complain about how I don't use enough water but at the end of that job everyone says it was the perfect amount. I learned this process from my own mistakes and listening to old timers.
For every 90 pound bag of ready mix I never use more then 2 gallons but most of the time it is more it 1 & a 1/2 gallons of water (3 liters?).

Here is a video of me using the tarp technique to mix concrete(0:49). I make a mash potato crater, pour the water and when it gets near the top I stop; it's almost 2 gallons of water

Truman Hooker How To's Day: D.I.Y Parking Block Ledge (http://vimeo.com/28340331)


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: caffeine man on March 13, 2012, 10:42:48 AM
Yeah wish it was that easy krusher! We've gone for the full DIY deal and it's being built in a abandoned stockyard or something. So I'm not really in charge and need funds from the others to build it (besides who wants to build a spot on their own). I will try to convince them a lip is quicker/easier and just as skate-able as 'real coping' but seems they are pretty set on a proper qp.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: Salamander on March 13, 2012, 04:43:04 PM
What is a proper quarter pipe? And what is "real coping"? One with Metal coping? One with pool coping or one with concrete noping/hand formed coping?

Just build it and skate it. If you want a little perfect quarter to skate then build one outta wood with metal coping in your garage and call it a day.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: bailgun on March 13, 2012, 09:38:50 PM
chainlink fencing will work in a pinch. just be sure that whatever you used for reinforcement is COMPLETELY encased by the crete. use dobies (little rocks or chunks of brick) to ensure that your cage gets raised up enough to be completely encased by the mud.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: krusher on March 13, 2012, 10:26:24 PM
(besides who wants to build a spot on their own).

I built my ramp on my own and skated it by myself most of the time. I have to say it came out pretty good...

The next spot I'm planing on building will probably only be built by me and it's a 40 minute drive from my house, so I don't believe I will skate it that much.

The name is in the title, Do it Yourself. If you can't do it yourself, for yourself then who the fuck are you?


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: Frank on March 14, 2012, 07:09:20 AM
If you can't do it yourself, for yourself then who the fuck are you?

Best quote ever.


Title: Re: Building a QP
Post by: bailgun on March 14, 2012, 01:47:14 PM
Yeah wish it was that easy krusher! We've gone for the full DIY deal and it's being built in a abandoned stockyard or something. So I'm not really in charge and need funds from the others to build it (besides who wants to build a spot on their own). I will try to convince them a lip is quicker/easier and just as skate-able as 'real coping' but seems they are pretty set on a proper qp.
wish in one hand, shit in the other.